Commerce of the United States

Wednesday, January 15.

A proposition being made to go into a Committee of the Whole on Mr. Madison's resolutions,

The House then went into committee.

Mr. Forrest, after a long pause, observed, that, as no other person appeared disposed to rise on the occasion, although he felt himself unequal to doing that justice to the subject which many others were, yet he considered it his duty to offer a few remarks which had occurred to him in the course of the debate.

In all our discussions of commercial affairs, the principal point to be kept in view was the promotion of the essential and permanent interests of our country, keeping in mind this maxim, (as true in respect to nations as individuals,) that there is no friendship in trade. He then entered into a consideration of our commercial connection with Great Britain, and observed that we should avoid letting our former prejudices, or those arising from recent transactions, influence our judgments. We should not regard the favoring of the French or British nation, but study to do that which would tend to the promotion of our own commerce and the interest of our own navigation. In this pursuit, we must keep in view our relative situation with European nations, particularly those of France and Great Britain, and more particularly the latter, with whom the proposed resolutions contemplate a change. Of all possible times, (said he,) I believe this the most improper to try the experiment.

If the British Government have been instrumental in letting the Algerines loose upon us; if their privateers commit acts of piracy upon our neutral flag, let it at least, in the first instance, be made matter of negotiation. Neutral nations must suffer some inconvenience; and it will be much better policy to come forward at once and say we are at war. We will not submit to vexatious insults, when they are too much to suffer, rather than make this commercial warfare, by which it is impossible, in the course of human events, but that we must be much the greatest sufferers; and how humiliating would it be, after trial, even to propose to make it a drawn battle!

Let us examine the subject. Of the whole fair trade of Great Britain, taking their imports and exports into view, their trade with the United States will be found to be one-sixth, or thereabouts. Take the imports and exports of the United States, and you will find that full one-half the value of our whole trade is with Great Britain and her dependencies. Who will suffer most? She, by the interruption of one-sixth, with the means of getting most of the articles we supply, on as good terms, from other nations, with great internal sources of revenue, and a people used to bear any taxes asked of them; or we, with an interruption of one-half our trade and commerce, not so well off with respect to internal resources, and the complaints of our citizens, not accustomed to heavy taxation? Let those who rely upon the effect it will have on the English manufacturers and artisans, look back to 1773 and 1774, and recollect the effect it then had.

But there is one circumstance that should have weight with every mind. It will be found that three-fourths of all the impost revenue of this country are derived from our commerce with the British. Shall we hazard an entire loss of this revenue? And if lost or greatly interrupted, from whence shall we supply its deficiency, without, at least, in their minds, oppressing the people of this country? I am not a stockholder or a bankholder. I am too poor to be either, and therefore can have no separate interest in view, and, where I am known, I shall not be charged with partiality to Great Britain; but I hope I am free from such unwarrantable prejudices as to lead me into measures to the injury of my country.

I lay it down as a principle not to be controverted, that our intercourse with Great Britain, in a commercial point, (I mean, putting the mode of carriage out of account, and confining it to the importation and exportation, and restrictions and bounties thereon,) is as favorable as we can expect, and, taken in the aggregate, full as favorable as with France, their Navigation Act excepted.

With respect to navigation, I have long thought it ought not to be submitted to; but are we to expect, at a moment like this, acting (as they will certainly believe we shall) under the impulse of resentment, they will waive an atom of their Navigation Act to the result of our resolutions? It is vain. Let us not hazard that which is certain, which the safeguard of experience has proved, for that we know not of.

It has been mentioned as a grievance that our produce is sent to France, Holland, Spain, Portugal, &c., and that our imports are, in a great degree, confined to Great Britain. Our merchants must pay their debts, and surely it is for their interest to sell their articles for the highest price they will bring, and purchase where they can obtain cheapest. Our produce is sent to those countries to pay our debts in Great Britain.

There has been nothing to lead me to a judgment how the blanks are to be filled. If, with such high duties as to prohibit the articles, our chief source of revenue will be wiped off, and the consequence may, nay, must be, direct taxation. If low, it will only exhibit, without gratifying, a resentment, and the consumers of these articles, the yeomanry of this country, will have to pay the tax. If it is said that it is intended to encourage our own factories, let us select those which we can manufacture, and lay prohibitory duties on the foreign articles.

Mr. F. reprobated the idea of suffering partial or merely political motives to influence in the discussion of the subject. Commercial subjects ought to be considered in an independent point of view. He hoped, therefore, that the committee would endeavor to divest themselves of every incidental impression, originating in impulses from particular events, and contemplate the question simply on its own merits.

Mr. Fitzsimons declared that, in the course of this discussion, he had not heard one single argument advanced which, admitting the premises to be true, could persuade him to give his consent to the first of the resolutions. It was possible that he might agree to some of those that followed. He was perfectly convinced that a judicious system of regulations would be of infinite advantage to the maritime interest of America. He was of opinion that the first resolution was by far too indefinite. The substance of the whole arguments advanced on both sides tended only to establish a fact, which was already perfectly well known, that the Governments of Europe act, in regard to the commerce of the United States, just as they think proper. The lesson was a very good one, and he trusted that, with a proper attention to temporary circumstances, this country would improve by it.

Mr. Madison regarded the objection of the gentleman as entirely of a new kind. He had refused his consent to the first of the resolutions, because it was indefinite. But the propositions laid before the House a few days ago with respect to the Algerines were fully as indefinite, and yet the gentleman who spoke last had recommended them. The order of procedings in the present question is perfectly candid and regular, consonant to the practice of the House, and the practice of the gentleman himself.

Mr. Ames wished, that gentlemen, instead of indefinite declamation, would lay their finger on each particular wrong that Britain had done to us. He did not know of any particular advantage that we had derived in our commerce with France. He wished to discountenance a spirit of revenge, and to ascertain on what side the benefits of our commerce lay, and wherein they consisted. He did not like unfair comparisons,

Mr. Nicholas said, that he would not, at this time of day, attempt to detain the House any further than by just observing that the practice of comparisons had originated among the gentlemen who opposed the resolutions.

At this stage, the committee rose, and had leave to sit again.