Military Establishment

Saturday, May 21.

The amendments of the Senate to the bill fixing the Military Establishment were read. They went to the retaining the whole number of light dragoons and the Major General, and directing that men should be enlisted for five instead of three years. The amendment respecting the dragoons being under consideration——

Mr. Baldwin informed the House that the amount of the amendments of the Senate was this, to keep up 320 dragoons instead of 52, and to retain the Major General. It appeared to him that the House, having determined upon these subjects already, would be at no loss to form an opinion upon these amendments.

Mr. Williams hoped that the amendment from the Senate would not be agreed to. This House had taken great pains to mature the bill, and he was of opinion that the number of troops agreed to was sufficient for a peace establishment. No gentleman had observed to the contrary; any addition would not only be an augmentation to the great expenses already accrued by the late war, but be a mean of retaining in the army useful citizens, who would be otherwise employed in pursuits of much more benefit to the United States.

Mr. W. Lyman hoped the amendment would be disagreed to.

Mr. S. Smith said, the Senate seemed to contemplate these light dragoons, on account of the officers, who were to do duty on horse or foot, as necessity required. From this idea, he would suggest the propriety of agreeing to the amendment.

Mr. Kittera said, the army would be placed so widely from each other, that the horse would prove very useful.

Mr. Giles had no idea of keeping up the horse for the sake of the officers.

Mr. Gilbert was in favor of retaining the whole number of horses.

On motion of Mr. Williams, the yeas and nays were taken, and the amendment was negatived, 58 to 22.

The consideration of the propriety of retaining the Major General was next taken up.

Mr. Nicholas could not conceive any use for generals. He believed if the Senate had struck out the General they sent them, the amendment would have been a good one.

Mr. Giles hoped they should not agree to the amendment. It would be a commencement of sinecures in the Military Department. There would be generals without men to command. He believed the bill, as sent from that House, contained its full proportion of officers.

Mr. S. Smith was in favor of the amendment. He said the expense would be no great things, and the present Major General would be very necessary in taking possession of the posts. Perhaps, at this time, it was essential to keep this man in command, as, if he were discharged, it might create a derangement in our Army which might be fatal. The command of three thousand men, it was true, was too trifling for a Major General. But, perhaps, as this General had been the victorious means of procuring us peace with the Indians, immediately to discharge him would appear like ingratitude, if not injustice.

Mr. Rutherford concurred in opinion with the gentleman last up.

Mr. W. Lyman said, they were not now called upon to reward the services of Major General Wayne, but to provide proper officers for their Army. If the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. S. Smith) were to bring forward a measure of that kind, they should know how to decide upon it. Nor did he think the argument for making the office of a Major General, because the posts were to be received, had much weight. Any other officer would receive them as well as a Major General.

Mr. Giles said, he had no personal objections to the present commander of our Army; but he considered the present proposition such a breach of principle as he could not agree to. It was the making of an office for a man; as the gentleman from Maryland seemed to think the taking possession of the posts the principal business to be performed by him. If the services of this gentleman were necessary on that occasion, he would much rather pass a bill to make him a commissioner for that purpose. All the arguments in favor of a Major General were in favor of the man, and not of the propriety of the office.

Mr. Murray said, the gentleman last up must know that the gentleman who had so successfully commanded our Western Army, was now in the service of the United States, yet he would insinuate that there was an intention of creating a new office. There was no disposition in those who wished to retain this meritorious man in service to create new offices. They were now about to make a regular Military Establishment; heretofore it had rather been a nominal one. There had been hitherto a Major General at the head of our corps, and he thought it would be proper to continue the command. There appeared to him a great deal of danger from the instability of their proceedings, an instability often charged upon a Government like ours. He would not attribute this to any other motive than such as were too apt to enter into large deliberative bodies. Was it right that when a man had led our armies to victory, and returned, that he should be immediately stripped of his commission? He thought not. It was said that this was done, because the Army was reduced; but he believed it was now as large as when General Wayne obtained his victory by it, for it was not then more than three thousand men; and yet, because they wished to retain this man in the service of the United States, they were told that they were creating new offices for which there was no necessity.

Mr. Nicholas said, with respect to the instability of their measures, he was ready to take his own share of it as well as that of the gentleman last up, for he never found him vary from one point; he was always desirous to keep up every office which had been once established. Mr. N. thought the conduct of gentlemen extraordinary. At one time they were to make our Establishment as large as possible, and when more favorable circumstances appeared, they were not to reduce it. Where were the benefits of peace, if they were still to keep up our War Establishments? Gentlemen tell you that the Army would be as large now as before the reduction, yet the same gentlemen were opposed to its being reduced to the number now contemplated. This appeared something like inconsistency. Mr. N. said, if they did not seize every favorable opportunity of lessening the expenses of Government, he believed their constituents would have good reason to complain of their want of attention to their duty.

Mr. Macon said, they ought to legislate on this subject as if there were no Army in existence. They had no permanent Establishment, as their men were discharged at the end of every three years. He believed our present commander was a very respectable officer, but he could not vote for a Major General in the Establishment, which he thought unnecessary, because he thought him a deserving man.

Mr. Bourne believed it was not necessary to have any appropriate number of men for a Major General to command. It had often been thought that a Major General was necessary. He believed they had thought so on former occasions. If any necessity should arise for the militia to be called out to aid the Army, such an officer would be highly necessary. He did not think it would be true economy to reject him.

Mr. Gallatin said it was not pleasing to give a vote which was in some degree of a personal nature like the present. He was unacquainted with the gentleman who now held the office of Major General in our Army, and, therefore, was under no personal influence, and his opinion on the subject was formed upon the information of those in whose judgment on military affairs, he must necessarily confide, as it was a subject he did not understand. It was supposed that a Major General was necessary for a War Establishment, but not for a Peace Establishment. He drew this conclusion from that grade ceasing with the war in 1783, and being again introduced in 1791, when the Indian war had commenced, and he understood it was more connected with the nature of the service than the number of men. The gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Smith) said that the nature of the service of this summer, required the service of General Wayne; but as the act they were about to pass would not take place till the 31st of October, as it was the opinion of all gentlemen of military knowledge, that there was no necessity for retaining a Major General in our reduced Army Establishment after the posts had been taken possession of, and as the whole summer appeared sufficient for that service, he would vote against the amendment.

Mr. Hartley thought it best to have a Major General. The expense was but small, and in case of the militia being called out (as was mentioned by the gentleman from Rhode Island) a Major General would be necessary; besides, to reject him, would have the appearance of forcing this man out of office in an ungenerous manner.

On motion of Mr. Bailey, the yeas and nays were then taken, and the Senate's amendment was lost, 49 to 34.